7 Questions with NWLC's Fatima Goss Graves

by Jessica Lauredan, Outreach Intern
National Women’s Law Center

This post is part of a weekly series profiling our blog authors.

Fatima Goss Graves, Senior Counsel at NWLC, works on ensuring gender equality in education through litigation, legislative policy, and public education.

Q: Your mother, Carol Goss, is President and CEO of the Skillman Foundation, a private organization working to improve schools and neighborhoods for children in southeast Michigan. How has her work influenced your career and goals?
Fatima: Both of my parents emphasized a commitment to public service from a young age. I have two sisters, and they always instilled in all of us the importance of being involved in issues that we’re passionate about — and about giving both our time and talents to those issues. In addition to my work here at the Center, one sister directs philanthropic affairs and urban renewal for the City of Detroit, and, while still in school, my other sister has always been heavily involved in community activities.

Also, I come from a long legacy of civil rights activists. My father and aunt were the named plaintiffs in a significant post-Brown Supreme Court ruling that desegregated schools in Knoxville, Tennessee, during the height of the civil rights movement.

Q: Over the years, the civil rights movement and the women’s rights movement have coincided and sometimes clashed. As a woman of color, do you ever feel torn between your loyalties as an African-American and as a feminist?
Fatima: I’m not sure I’d put it exactly that way — these are movements that have benefited from and fostered each other. And these movements continue to work in strong coalitions together; I work with many civil rights organizations on a regular basis and our work often overlaps.

That said, I strongly believe that feminists have a duty to be committed to racial and broader social justice, and there is a similar duty for civil rights activists to advocate on behalf of women and girls. And in so doing, feminists have to ensure that their advocacy takes the needs of all women into account, not just white women. Similarly, civil rights activists must ensure that their advocacy does not focus on progress for only men of color.

Q: It’s been said that the implementation of Title IX has contributed to the so-called “alpha girl” phenomenon, producing a generation of girls that have the drive and competitive nature equal (if not superior) to that of their male counterparts. This can conflict with the ideals of femininity that girls are also expected to retain. Do you think Title IX disadvantages girls in this way?
Fatima: I actually haven’t heard of the “alpha girl,” but I think the concept is great! It’s wonderful that there’s a generation of girls who have confidence and are not afraid to engage in activities they’re interested in.

The thing is, this is a phenomenon is not so unusual. Like boys, girls come in all types. One of the dangers highlighted in my work relating to nontraditional fields is that too often stereotypes define what girls should be rather than what they can be. This phenomenon is playing on those stereotypes, because girls certainly can be feminine and aggressive and confident and leaders ... you get my point?

I’d be very disappointed if there was a counter-movement to the “alpha girls,” attempting to undermine this generation of inspired and driven girls.

Q: Many opponents of Title IX argue that it has created a “boy crisis” or that the law serves to favor girls in the classroom and on the playing field. What do you say to these claims?
Fatima: I’d say that these people are on the wrong track. There’s a lot of work to be done to ensure that girls and boys have access to quality education. But these people, in their advocacy for boys, have conveniently ignored what’s happening to girls. For example, opponents of Title IX focus on high dropout rates for boys. And to be sure, these rates really are troubling. But they ignore that one in four female students also will not graduate from high school on time. For girls of color, the rates are worse: 37 percent of Hispanic female students, 40 percent of black female students, and 50 percent of Native American/Alaskan Native female students fail to graduate in four years. Indeed, the astonishing figures for girls of color far exceed the drop out rates for white males. And the consequences for these girls are often lifelong and perpetual — e.g., high rates of unemployment, the need to depend on public assistance, and stagnant low wages.

The bottom line is, by focusing on Title IX, these opponents detract from the real solutions for education advancement for all students. There’s no evidence that Title IX disadvantages boys. In fact, since the enactment of Title IX, more girls and boys go on to college, more boys and girls participate in athletics. It’s just not the zero-sum game detractors make it out to be.

Q: What are your hopes for future generations of girls and women?
Fatima: I hope that future generations of girls and women are educated in a harassment-free environment, and that they are engaged in non-traditional fields at the same level as their interests. I hope that they participate in athletics, math, science, and politics.

I hope that they see their opportunities as limitless.

Q: What’s the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning?
Fatima: That I’m very grateful — to have a job that I truly enjoy, a supportive family, and a wonderful husband who’s my best friend. I’m a lucky girl!

Q: Name three things on your “must-do-before-I-die” list.
Fatima: I try not to make such morbid lists, but since you’ve asked:

1. Travel to every continent (I have a long way to go on that one!)
2. Help construct a house (I guess I could get started right away by volunteering for Habitat Humanity ...)
3. Write a novel

Comments

[Robin Reed]

Thanks for linking to these, Anna! We're big fans of Ms. JD.

We just posted another interview, with Senior Counsel Gretchen Borchelt. We'll keep doing them every week for the next few months.

[Anna]

Thanks for doing this interview, Jessica. I blogged about it at Ms. JD. Will there be a new one posted later today? Or is it a more occasional, some-Fridays kind of schedule?